Unfinished Precious??

Discussion for Depeche Mode, and Depeche Mode related topics.

Unfinished Precious??

Postby CrazyModester79 » Wed Jul 27, 2005 6:04 pm

I think most of us have heard "precious" now, and what a fantastic return to form from the boys. but what puzzles me is (i have no knowledge of how music is made by the way) people keep saying that its unfinished? in what way? because it sounds perfect to me! does anybody have any idea what would possibly change on it? thanx guys.
User avatar
CrazyModester79
 
Posts: 926
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 11:50 pm
Location: Liverpool, England

Postby Oberkorn » Wed Jul 27, 2005 6:33 pm

listen to sweetest perfection (violator) in headphones...

most 'finished' dm songs are heavily layered and complex.

Precious is a rough mix...which means all the parts are there (sometimes), but the embellishments (effects and mix placement) aren't finely tuned.

It requires a different mindset to mix and master a song for final output...not only is it technically getting a song to sound it's best and finding a home for each individual sound, it's finding the heart of the song, and doing what you can to accentuate and develop it to reveal it's essence.

It's not too unlike photography where 50% is the picture you take, and 50% what you develop into the final print.

Often times it takes a two completely different mind sets to write / record the song, and 'develop' it in the mix. This is why the mixer they choose and producer they work with is a thoughtful decision and in some ways an equal contributer to the band for the final output.

What they often do is throw together a rough mix and circulate it with the crew, sit with it, take some time away and come back to it later. This will help them figure out what they like and don't like and put it into the final master.

If that's indeed what this is for Precious, we owe a thanks to DM for making us a part of that evaluation / reaction process.

We'll see, but for all we know it's done and pressed by now and they're just looking for initial reactions.

This of course is all speculation, we'll have to wait and see.
---------------
it's like learning a new language
User avatar
Oberkorn
 
Posts: 1005
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2001 1:00 am
Location: Northern CA

Postby CrazyModester79 » Wed Jul 27, 2005 6:55 pm

Thanx for that info much appreciated, so would it take a trained muscian to her the diffrence when it is done? or would it be quite obvious to hear? thanx
User avatar
CrazyModester79
 
Posts: 926
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 11:50 pm
Location: Liverpool, England

Postby Oberkorn » Wed Jul 27, 2005 7:28 pm

that's the funny thing, it's only relative to itself.

If they decided to produce this mix, it's would be "finished". Being a musician / engineer helps only in that I can think of things I would do differently or experiment with...but that could be said about any song, for the most part.

Some things in the mix sound a little high...the chime chords and the grungy guitar in the bridge, personally, i kinda like it like that, but I can see where it might stand out (in a weird way) from the overall song.

The drum track doesn't really do anything either, just a basic loop which tells me it might be a scratch track, but then again, this song might not need super duper percussion. (think people are people)

Like i said tho, pure speculation.
---------------
it's like learning a new language
User avatar
Oberkorn
 
Posts: 1005
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2001 1:00 am
Location: Northern CA

Postby JaveDMode » Wed Jul 27, 2005 11:31 pm

I think the beginning guitar riff comes in a little too loud so I am betting they will do something with that.
I think we will be able to tell a difference between what we have heard and what we will hear.
Trust no one.

Fight the future.
User avatar
JaveDMode
 
Posts: 3947
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2003 6:33 pm
Location: A cold black room, shadowed by a veil of gloom... Houston, Texas, U.S.A.

Postby Kaileocomial » Thu Jul 28, 2005 12:45 am

This is what I think...

There is no way that a band would send an unfinished track to the folks making the video. Un mastered perhaps (which basically means that the levels aren't yet tweaked to perfection) but my guess is that the track itself is done.

The VIDEO was unfinished, and that's where everyone's getting their 'the track isn't even done yet' stuff from. But the video that people got ahold of was apparently not at 100% quality level, and any mp3's floating around precious are just ripped from the audio track of the video, and then copied several times before the files found their way into our hot little hands. So the song naturally sounds a little bit rough, and all the steps in between have probably exadgerated some frequencies and subtly muted others.

Saying that 'there aren't enough layers going on in the song for it to be done yet' is kind of silly, because we haven't heard this album yet. It's a new producer they haven't worked with yet, and every DM album sounds very different, and in particular the last two albums most definately had a 'stripped down' sort of minimal approach to them... and there's clearly already more going on in Precious than on any given song off the last two albums.

Bottom line: I'd be willing to bet large sums of money that when we finally get a CD version of the song, it will sound exactly the same as the leaked version we're hearing now, except with higher sound quality (which can make quite a bit of difference). I wouldn't expect the actual structure of the song to change at all between now & the official release. I'm 99.9% sure of this.
Kaileocomial
 

Postby Oberkorn » Thu Jul 28, 2005 1:06 am

I'm with ya on the 99% thing for the structure, otherwise why send it off for vid? Time and structure won't change.

That's not to say the mix is done yet, but you're probably right that all that's left is finalizing the mix / master process. There is still room for improvement.

There was something about the 'quality' of this track that reminded me of a demo before I knew for a fact that it was a rough. I'll be curious to compare the two for sure.
---------------
it's like learning a new language
User avatar
Oberkorn
 
Posts: 1005
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2001 1:00 am
Location: Northern CA

question about final mastering

Postby collette » Thu Jul 28, 2005 2:29 am

Oberkorn,
Listenting to the track, I felt the vocal mix wasn't perfect. At this point in the mix do you think they will consider, raising the levels on the backing vocals, tampering with effects (additional reverb, delay, or any additional processing). Or has that part of the recording pretty much set in stone?Seems to me, that there are places where the vocal tracks could use an additional track (Dave doing the same vocals, but a seperate track). I don't know the technical term, but basically one track on the left, one on the right. Just something to add a little more depth, layers, and subtle differences. Also, as far as the music, I think it needs very little tweeking at this point. It needs to be cleaned up slightly, but I don't feel they should over do it. There's something refreshing about a non-perfect, overly processed guitar track. So long as the bass at a complimentary frequency, and the drums have the right sound. The drum mix could sound a little more real. Let me know how much you disagree?
collette
 

Postby Oberkorn » Thu Jul 28, 2005 4:03 am

Collette,

You're right on the money and seem to have a pretty good idea of what they can / can't do. I tend to agree with you on all your points.

It's hard to say what they will do, if anything. The implication so far is that it was a rough mix, so I'm guessing they have some tweaking in mind and this would definitely include some mastering and levels, but definitely no recording.

They've probably tracked and tried various things that aren't in the mix we heard, especially vocals and backing. Being that it's a digital workflow, they have a tremendous amount of flexibility. My guess is they will go in and ad final embellishments, try various versions, and pick one. Knowing them, they tend to devote a lot of time and detail here. Unless they're just going for a minimal style as pointed out earlier.

Ultimately I think the band has full control over what goes out, so you never know what they will tweak and when.

Personally I like the raw and traditional vibe the rough mix has. While I don't think it's finished cooking by normal (hard core attn. to details) DM standards, I'd still eat it and be happy.

As a song I think it's great, couldn't stop listening to it from the gate. It would be neat to hear the original demo or acoustic guitar version and see how far they've already come in making what it is.

The other thing to consider is what speakers you're listening on. I heard it first on my mac speakers, it took on a life of it's own when I played it on a system with descent bass response. Still a little rough tho.
---------------
it's like learning a new language
User avatar
Oberkorn
 
Posts: 1005
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2001 1:00 am
Location: Northern CA

Postby SEVEN+ » Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:32 am

I must disagree with the statement that vocals should have one track panned left and one panned right.. Normal vocals tracks are always panned center (in the middle of the music). Nor have DM to my knowledge ever dubbed vocaltracks. Dave's voice is strong enough to carry itself.

But for the most part I agree with what's said before. The song is finished structure-wise, and the mix is for the most part done. The song won't change that much, just some tweaking on the guitar riff (too loud), vocals (too little depth), metal-sounding arp on the breaks (too loud), finalizing the mix and then mastering it remains, I think.

It's funny that, because it is said to be unfinished, so many people expect things to drastically change in the song.
If God has a masterplan...
User avatar
SEVEN+
 
Posts: 647
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2003 3:59 pm
Location: Near Amsterdam, The Netherlands

Next

Return to Depeche Mode Related

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 26 guests

cron